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  • hackers

    Electronic 'GhostNet' Spy Ring Linked to China

    GhostNet, a "cyber espioniage network," has broken into 1,295 computers in 103 countries. Canadian researchers have traced the operation to China. The Dalai Lama and NATO were among its targets.
    03/28/09
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    By Owen Thomas

    Comment by burntbread: Time to switch to Mac. 3 Responses | Other threads

  • patents

    Microsoft can now @&!* censor your $#!@ in real time

    The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has granted Microsoft a patent, first applied for in 2004, on technology to censor profanity — or any keywords off a list — from an audio stream in real time. This technology could be applied not just to online video like YouTube but also for cell-phone audio and internet chat. Think China will be the first buyer? @#$% yeah. [Ars Technica]
    10/20/08
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    5

    By Alaska Miller

    Comment by sample032: Cell phone audio and online video? Put down the bong; it's for Xbox Live. 2 Responses | Other threads

  • the sum of all human knowledge

    Jimmy Wales hangs out with China's top censor

    Jimmy Wales, cofounder of the world's most comprehensive history of C-Pop, recently sat for propaganda pictures with China's top censor Cai Mingzhao. The pair also spoke a little bit, but not about "the fact that a few politically sensitive pages are blocked," according to an interview Wales gave to Rebecca MacKinnon, an advisory board member at Wikipedia's nonprofit parent, the Wikimedia Foundation. "Since I wasn't sure of the exact details, and just due to the way the conversation went (more high level than about specific details), I didn't raise this question," Wales said. "But, I am not cool with any censorship of Wikipedia." Maybe he'll tell Mingzhao the next time they meet for pictures.
    10/02/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by dogcat: Below is a video of Jetset Jimbo speaking at a UNESCO meeting only a few days ago, explicitly complaining about... more » | Other threads

  • great moments in pr

    Chinese iPhone worker gets to keep her job

    A Chinese worker at a Foxconn factory in Shenzhen, China is "definitely not fired," a factory spokesperson told the newspaper Xiandai Kuaibao. The smiling young lady's photos were found on a newly unboxed iPhone by a British buyer who posted them to MacRumors.
    08/27/08
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    By Paul Boutin

    Comment by giddieup: its communists..you either smile at the camera or at the ak-47s... you get to pick which. 1 Responses | Other threads

  • great moments in journalism

    A videoblogger shows how well the media is playing Beijing's game

    The whining by journalists about China's Internet restrictions at the Olympics in Beijing rings hollow: It belies how interested they are in actually reporting anything that might run afoul of the China's Communist censors. How convenient to blame packet sniffers and blocked network ports, instead of actually wearing out shoe leather tracking down protesters. Oh, but how much easier to refresh Amnesty International's website from the air-conditioned comfort of the Olympic Village. Actually showing up at a protest will get you detained without a trial, as muckraking videoblogger Brian Conley and friends have discovered. It's hard to meet deadlines from jail, so best to stick to hard-hitting reports about cheerleaders. A bonus: People actually enjoy watching that stuff. More »
    08/22/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by Ken: they need to get shot.. more » | Other threads

  • mangobot

    Coming Soon from China: Dystopic Futures, the Next Steve Jobs, and a World Full of Drumming Androids

    Welcome back to MangoBot, a biweekly column about Asian futurism by TokyoMango blogger Lisa Katayama. I'm a total sports nut. Olympic season makes my bones shiver with excitement. But this year, I took my mind off record-breaking swim relays and super-twisty gymnastics routines for a minute to consider the host country's techno-socio-political future. The opening ceremony confirmed my theory that China is breeding robots. (We already know that the cute girl who performed the patriotic song was lip-syncing and that the fireworks shown on TV were fake. I'm pretty sure that the 2008 drummers who kicked off the five-hour technological spectacularity were androids, too.) But what else is up in the giant nation that many believe will be the next world superpower? I called some experts and came away with a list of five predictions for China's next half-century. [io9]
    Feature
    08/15/08
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    By Lisa Katayama
  • olympics

    China deports Twitter user for livestreaming Olympics protest

    Activist Twitterer noneck (aka Noel Hidalgo) was in Tiananmen Square on Saturday for a free-Tibet protest. After he Twittered the event and broadcast it live over Qik, Chinese authorities deported him. He's one of 28 activists bounced from China during the Olympics, but the only one who documented his actions live, with over 30,000 views. Rather foolish of the Chinese government: Had they not deported Hidalgo, it's unlikely so many people would have paid attention to his lifecast. His video of the pro-Tibet die-in runs below: More »
    08/12/08
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    By Melissa Gira Grant

    Comment by RomildaWorm: Send in the Marines to free people? Thats the opposite of freeing. Violence doesn't free people. Social programs,... more » | Other threads

  • censorship

    Yahoo shareholders not the only ones pissed at the San Jose Fairmont

    Over at Jerry Yang's shareholder snoozefest today, Chinese political protesters showed up outside the hotel lobby. They set up exhibits shaming Yahoo for handing over bloggers' Yahoo Mail accounts to the Chinese government. Although Jerry Yang has already answered to Congress and settled with the bloggers' families, the protesters who showed up are still mad. Or opportunistic, given the expected media attention this year on Yahoo's normally sleepy annual meeting. The bloggers remain in Chinese prisons. As I tried to take more pics — on a public street outside the hotel — guys in suits came out and told me to leave the premises. And here I thought I was in the United States.
    08/01/08
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    By Alaska Miller

    Comment by ElementK: Sounds like you were well within your rights. Here's a cheatsheet: [www.krages.com] Though I have to say it's easier... more » | Other threads

  • censorship

    Reporters find presumed privileges revoked behind China's Great Firewall

    The Chinese government may have assured the International Olympic Committee that reporters would enjoy Western freedoms while covering the Olympic games, such as unfettered access to the Internet. Once on the ground, however, journalists have discovered that's not exactly the case. The IOC has been busy backtracking. Olympics reps now have clarified that open Web access is only for sites about "Olympic competitions" — not, say, Amnesty International, one of many sites that has been blocked. The question no one has asked, however, is why China should feel compelled to act in any other way? More »
    07/30/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by Dror Poleg: @LACJ: Cheers. I'm not sure all the blocked sites will be with us for many more years. After all, they... more » | Other threads

  • politics

    Facebook's the place for fearless leaders

    Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao's profile was profiled in the New York Times, and he has since added over 3,000 fans to the already impressive 13,000 cited in the article. And typical of a vain Facebook user, his photo is years out of date. [NYT] (Photo by AP/Liu Jiansheng)
    05/29/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by Fidel on the Roof: a/s/l lol check out my face book more » | Other threads

  • your privacy is an illusion

    Okay to be evil in India

    Google has reportedly turned over the necessary information to identify an Orkut user who wrote "I hate Sonia Ghandi." The Indian government had the name of the perpetrator, Rahul Vaid, but Google provided the IP address that pinpointed his location. This is not the first time Google has helped a foreign government go after its own citizens. After the jump, Boing Boing TV filmed the art pranksters from the Billboard Liberation Front and Monochrom teaming up to help Google advertise their close relationship with the ruling Chinese Communist Party's Internet censors — on the day of Google's annual shareholder meeting, no less. "Do no evil" seems pretty darn flexible if you're a moral relativist with profitable interests in international markets. More »
    05/20/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by ValerieSextus: Why is this such big news? 'Online Harassment' is a class 1 misdemeanor in Virginia, and it could be something... more » | Other threads

  • caption contest

    Google raises the stakes in competition with rival Baidu

    Google has been hoping to get more market share in China, but surely not this way. A tipster sends in this photo of bus ads in Xi'an, China, advertising "Googirls" with the search engine's familiar candy-colored design. Is this another Marissa Mayer project? Suggest a caption in the comments. The best one will become the new headline. Wednesday's winner: "The first rule of Hair club is you do not talk about Hair Club," by FlakJack.
    05/15/08
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    By Owen Thomas

    Comment by Goose Spruce: China loves Googirls long long time. more » | Other threads

  • great moments in journalism

    Never mind the thousands dead, will China quake delay iPhone shipments?

    A News.com reporter covered the death toll in 28 words before spending the next 613 trying to figure out if the recent earthquake in China near the manufacturing hub of Chengdu would hurt multinational technology companies. Which is only slightly less tasteless than the conversation which broke out on tech news tracker Techmeme — where the conversation revolved around Robert Scoble shouting "first!" You stay classy, technosphere.
    05/12/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by giania: facepalm.jpg I guess on one hand there's really not any harm in talking about what you know as it relates to... more » | Other threads

  • great moments in pr

    Sergey Brin schools us on how to take a stand, boldly do nothing

    CEOs and founders feeling hounded by pesky profit-hating humanitarians could learn a lesson or two from Google cofounder Sergey Brin. At Google's annual shareholder meeting yesterday, Amnesty International presented two shareholder proposals on behalf of the New York State Pension Funds involving Google's difficulties with China, privacy and censorship. Brin handled the PR mess, no problem. More »
    05/09/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by BobDope: He needs to be more like Thomas Edison and electrocute some elephants. That'd give those hippies something to be... more » | Other threads

  • social networks

    Chinese Facebook clone Xiaonei raises more funding than Facebook

    Masayoshi Son is the kingmaker of the Asian Internet. His latest coronation: Xiaonei, a Chinese social network whose name translates to "on campus" and whose look and feel closely mirrors Facebook's. Son's Softbank and other investors have put $430 million into Xiaonei's parent, Oak Pacific Interactive, in a deal which values OPI at more than $1 billion. This has to worry executives at Facebook, which has raised less money — albeit while selling far less of the company to investors than Xiaonei has. More »
    04/30/08
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    By Owen Thomas

    Comment by Fidel on the Roof: So what if it is a complete copy. Same crap as it brings the same utility (or lack thereof) to... more » | Other threads

  • stats

    America officially so 2007, according to Chinese Internet-user figures

    There are now more Internet users in China than in the U.S., according to the China Internet Network Information Center. The current count: 221 million. As of December, the U.S. had 215 million users. The upshot: When the Web 2.0 bubble pops, expect a rush of signups for Mandarin courses at City College of San Francisco. [Reuters]
    04/24/08
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    By Owen Thomas
  • security

    The real reason Google is cooperating with China

    CNN has been taken down in parts of China, and reports are suggesting that hackers who may have the support of the Chinese government are responsible. The attacks have come after many Chinese feel that the news network's reports seemed biased in favor of pro-Tibet sentiment. While a simple DDOS attack on CNN's servers is fairly unremarkable, boasts by Chinese hackers that "no Web site is one hundred percent safe" got me thinking. Maybe the reason that Google and other Valley companies are cooperating with the Chinese government isn't just because they're greedy, but also because they're scared. After all, helping to censor and track down dissidents doesn't generate bad press stateside the way that, say, a security breach exposing the private, personal data of millions of Americans might. (Photo by heinousjay)
    04/18/08
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    By Jackson West
  • i hate it here

    Webcam captures Tibet protesters on Golden Gate Bridge

    Why should the Chinese government shouldn't worry about protests during the Olympic torch run. Local media would much rather cover low-effort displays closer to home, like these activists scaling the Golden Gate Bridge. KPIX has live coverage. [CBS 5]
    04/07/08
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    By Jackson West

    Comment by SeanPara: Tibet was a theocracy who kept the people poor and ignorant. Does the Free Tibet movement want to chuck out... more » | Other threads

  • acquisitions

    Chinese government, Yahoo CEO Jerry Yang best buddies again

    Who says there's no such thing as karma? A couple of years ago, Yahoo and its cofounder Jerry Yang did the Chinese government a big favor. Something about putting mouthy writers in jail. And now, the New York Times reports, a law that goes into effect this August will make the Chinese government Yang's best hope for fending off Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. More »
    03/28/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by jamar0303: Wasn't there some bunch of shareholders suing because Yahoo didn't want to merge with Microsoft? Wonder if they'd back down... more » | Other threads

  • don't be evil

    Google keeps Tibet riots on Youtube, off Google News

    After China's Internet censors blocked access to YouTube because of clips depicting riots in Tibet, Google immediately began work to restore access to the online-video site in the country. But news stories regarding the Tibet protest remain censored from Google News China, Blogoscoped's Phillip Lenssen reports. Below, screenshots from Google News Hong Kong, which features the Tibet protests, and Google News China, which does not. More »
    03/20/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by MarkTheMarketWatcher: Shocker. more » | Other threads

  • politics

    Google fighting China's YouTube ban

    On Saturday, the Great Firewall of China started blocking YouTube. The apparent cause: Uploads of videos showing protests in Tibete, including this clip from CNN. A YouTube spokesman told Portfolio.com that Google is "looking into the matter, and working to ensure that the service is restored as soon as possible." Details are thin on what Google is actually doing, but Google has made compromises with China in the past. When Google launched its Chinese-language search engine, it stripped out results referring to the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 and the Falun Gong movement, among other things.
    03/17/08
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    By Jordan Golson

    Comment by Loba: I'm sure Baidu will be launching there own version of "you Tube" soon so expect the ban to be a... more » | Other threads

  • youtube

    China blocks YouTube again, protecting citizen access to ignorance, bliss

    The Chinese government blocked citizen access to YouTube today, after foreign news bureaus uploaded videos to the site depicting violent protests in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital. It's easy enough for the Chinese to get around the government's firewall — using a proxy server or a virtual private network would do the trick — but that's enough of a nuisance that China's firewall works anyway. Who wants to kill a lazy afternoon hunting around the Internet for ways to learn about the evils of their government? Kill your bliss with the clip below. More »
    03/16/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by rationalist: Even though China has blocked YouTube, they are also bombing it. check out an article on the propaganda: govofchinawatch.wordpress.com more » | Other threads

  • 100-word version

    Evading the Great Firewall of China

    James Fallows's epic 4,221-word article on the Great Firewall of China in The Atlantic breaks with geek convention. When writing about China's technological efforts to block undesirable Web content, we're supposed to conclude that censorship is damage, and the Internet will route around it. (Wired did so last October.) Fallows instead concludes that all the Chinese authorities have to do is make finding unlawful content on the Internet slightly annoying. The masses of people with more interesting things to do than configure proxy servers will comply. But what we really like is how The Atlantic pitched this story to us: Fallows's work isn't a provocative thinkpiece on the nature of censorship in the age of the Internet, it's service journalism! Who cares about the Chinese people — you just want to know if the Internet will work when you travel to Beijing for the Olympics. Forthwith, the PR person's suggested questions, and answers extracted from Fallows piece: More »
    02/20/08
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    By Owen Thomas

    Comment by needcaffeine: It's more then an annoyance. I regularly travel between Hong Kong, China and the US. The lack of content and... more » | Other threads

  • 3com

    3Com buyout by Huawei falling apart

    Microsoft's Yahoo bid is not the only one in trouble. The $2.2 billion offer for 3Com made by the private-equity firm Bain Capital and Chinese telecommunications company Huawei Technologies is no longer on the table. The company has been unable to work out a compromise with the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, a federal panel which has the authority to recommend the White House block or alter terms of deals that involve national security. [AP]
    02/20/08
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    By Jordan Golson
  • apple

    1 in 10 iPhones are on China Mobile — and that's a headache for Jobs

    China Mobile, the No. 1 cell company in China, claims there are 400,000 unlocked iPhones running on its network. That's more than 10 percent of the 3.7 million Steve Jobs announced Apple had shipped through mid-January. A very impressive stat to be sure, but why did China Mobile release it now? Apple and China Mobile have been in negotiations for a while about bringing the iPhone to China. The talks had reached an impasse over how much of a kickback Apple would receive on subscriber fees. More »
    02/15/08
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    10

    By Jordan Golson

    Comment by jamar0303: @idannyb: A little late of me, but I have one response- Installer.app. That's what they're getting in exchange for everything... more » | Other threads

  • censorship

    Last year, China shuttered 44,000 websites and arrested 868 people as part of its campaign against Internet porn. The government employs tens of thousands to discover and censor such sites. Skeptical human rights groups call the project an effort to crack down on political dissidents ahead of the 2008 Olympics. The rest of us wonder: The Chinese government thinks it can shut down porn? [Sydney Morning Herald]
    01/24/08
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    By Nicholas Carlson
  • apple

    Apple and China's largest mobile provider China Mobile have called off discussions for now. No. 2 carrier China Unicom, with one-third the customers of China Mobile, will be next in line for Apple talks. As a smaller company, the thinking goes, China Unicom will have more to gain from the iPhone and thus be more willing to bend to Apple's financial and technical requirements. China Mobile recently agreed to become the Chinese distributor for RIM's BlackBerry. [The Motley Fool]
    01/16/08
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    By Jordan Golson
  • censorship

    China to own all Internet video

    China has upped the ante on censorship, moving beyond the Great Firewall of China to mandate that all Internet video sites must be state-owned. Websites would then be required to follow the same censorship rules as television broadcasters and newspapers, which are already operated, and strictly regulated, by the state. The move is aimed at clearing up technical difficulties in regulating video on the Internet, an area that the Chinese government has sought to control but has been less effective at censoring than the standard Internet. However, plenty of ambiguities remain. More »
    01/03/08
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    By Tim Faulkner

    Comment by pchas: Christinelu and Smartshanghai sound like flaks for the Chinese government. Really, how can you offer "insight and balance" to this, taken... more » | Other threads

  • politics

    The Bush administration is facing criticism over its decision to allow sales of certain high-tech equipment to China. Some experts think the products could help China modernize its military or share knowledge with Iran and Syria. Among the exports now allowed: telecommunications equipment, a key sector for the Valley. [NYT]
    01/02/08
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    By Jordan Golson

    Comment by dalejo: So it's ok to give them Favored Nation status? As for equipment, Huawei Technologies anyone? It's so Cisco compatible that... more » | Other threads

  • china

    Chen Yuhua has taken the Chinese government to court over its removal of a Web post critical of the government's restrictions on dogs over 14 inches tall. The dog owner says he followed the letter of the law in his rare challenge to his country's Internet-censorship regime. [Washington Post]
    12/26/07
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    By Jordan Golson
  • your privacy is an illusion

    British spy agency MI5 has warned financial and legal institutions of a security threat from state-sponsored Chinese hackers. The Chinese government, of course, has denied any involvement. [The Register]
    12/06/07
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    By Jordan Golson
  • china

    All of a sudden Barry Diller's a rice queen?

    While Facebook goes around denying rumors about deals in China, IAC chairman Barry Diller is telling anybody who will listen about his plans for Asian expansion. Diller told reporters this morning that IAC will spend $100 million in China, and bring over its Ask.com search engine, too. This will raise IAC's Chinese investments to $300 million. (Photo by AP/Elaine Thompson)
    11/23/07
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by narnio: pretty stupid all around. more » | Other threads

  • facebook

    Another day, another Facebook in China rumor

    Interfax China reports that Facebook is in negotiations to buy Chinese social network Tianwang.com. This comes after Facebook denied a Times of London report that it was in negotiations to buy Zhanzuo.com for $85 million, saying that the company was not in talks. In the latest article, Zhanzuo agrees — sort of. A spokesperson tells Interfax "we will not sell out and we have stopped talking with Facebook." Facebook denies acquisition talks were ever started. Maybe Facebook and its Chinese counterparts they were just sharing privacy best practices? In any event, we think all of these deal rumors off the mark. What we hear Facebook is really looking for in Asia is a strategic investor to complete its $500 million financing round — you know, the one for which Microsoft already chipped in $240 million. (Photo by ford)
    11/21/07
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    By Nicholas Carlson
  • facebook

    Facebook denies China deal

    A Facebook spokesperson tells us the Times of London is full of it. Earlier today, the British newspaper reported that Facebook had purchased Chinese social network Zhanzuo.com for $85 million, but according to Facebook spokeswoman Brandee Barker, "No offer has been made and no acquisition of any company in China is being considered by Facebook." Funny thing is, the Times even goes so far to quote a spokeswoman in its story — but doesn't specify where she works. "We do not know who the spokeperson is that they are referring to in the Times story and were never contacted by the paper to confirm the accuracy of this story," says Barker. So how did this rumor start, and who's this mysterious spokesperson? No answer yet, but we'll let you know what we hear.
    11/19/07
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by egoldin: Heard of a spell check? more » | Other threads

  • facebook

    Report: Facebook acquires Chinese social network

    Facebook has purchased Chinese social network Zhanzuo.com for $85 million, according to reports. Facebook has yet to confirm the news, though an unnamed PR flack told the Times of London that Zhanzuo's chief executive Jack Zhang and Mark Zuckerberg know each other and that official news should be expected by the end of the month. Zhanzuo.com has 7 million active members and is reportedly popular among students. Meanwhile, now we have at least one theory why Facebook feels comfortable allowing employers to spy on their employees' private profiles. Facebook could just be preparing to operate in the People's Republic of China, where your privacy really is an illusion. Update: Facebook denies the report.
    11/19/07
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by macbeach: Zey zeem to have zome zort of "Z" zing going on. more » | Other threads

  • iphone

    Apple and China Mobile are in talks to bring the iPhone to China in 2008. Apple sold the first iPhones outside the U.S. last week, launching in Britain and Germany. Apple has said it wants to start selling iPhones in Asia in 2008. We suspect both companies want to launch before the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing — and make some calls from Mount Everest too. [AP]
    11/13/07
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    By Jordan Golson
  • jerry yang

    Shamed Yahoo settles with Chinese journalists

    Less than a week after Yahoo CEO Jerry Yang was bitchslapped on Capitol Hill, his company has settled with the families of Chinese writers who were jailed in China. Shi Tao and Wang Xiaoning were imprisoned based partly on documents Yahoo says it was "legally required" to hand over. Settlement terms were not disclosed. Yahoo will start a fund to provide "humanitarian relief" to dissidents and their families. Reportedly, one part of the settlement stipulates that Yahoo must lobby the Chinese government to release the two journalists. Right. Like Yahoo's boys in Beijing will have more success swaying Communist hardliners than Yahoo's D.C. reps had in avoiding this embarrassing debacle in the first place.
    11/13/07
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    By Jordan Golson

    Comment by w00zy33: I'm sure this didn't even phase Jerry. That guy is completely emotionally inept and I say that w/out knowing him... more » | Other threads

  • jerry yang

    Yahoo shamed by dissident families in Washington

    Yahoo CEO Jerry Yang's second day on Capitol Hill was less pleasant than his first — and no birthday candles this time, either. Gao Qinsheng, mother of imprisoned journalist Shi Tao, and Yu Lin, wife of jailed dissident Wang Xiaoning, railed against Yahoo for helping China's government silence their family members. This after Yang and Yahoo general counsel Michael Callahan apologized before Congress on Tuesday. Word is the two execs also met privately with the relatives to apologize and discuss out how much Yahoo will have to pay to settle a civil suit filed by the two women. (Photo by drs2biz)
    11/08/07
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    By Nicholas Carlson

    Comment by Cali_dude: Yahoo's biggest problem is middle management. Many of the VP's in the organization cause the talented employees to leave. Yahoo's... more » | Other threads

  • ipo

    Aliba-what? Profit-taking drops Alibaba.com share price almost 20 percent

    Alibaba.com, the most anticipated IPO since Google, dropped almost 18 percent to HK$32.60 as quick-trading investors captured profits. Yesterday, on the first day of trading, Alibaba.com shot up 300% from HK$13.50 at open to HK$39.50. Perhaps investors who bought at the peak paused to look into Alibaba.com's real business. The Chinese B2B site matches up industrial buyers and sellers — want to buy 50,000 metric tons of Brazilian soybeans? Parent company Alibaba Group runs Yahoo China, which I suspect at least some retail investors thought they were buying. But no — Yahoo China wasn't part of the IPO deal.
    11/07/07
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    By Jordan Golson

    Comment by mandarin: HK Stock Exchange is known for that. A lot of those clowns who trade there trade in margin so dont... more » | Other threads

  • jerry yang

    Happy birthday, moral pygmy!

    Bad enough that Michael Callahan, Yahoo's top lawyer, and Jerry Yang, the company's CEO and cofounder were raked over the coals today by a House committee for the company's role in the imprisonment of Chinese journalist Shi Tao. But Yang suffered the additional indignity of getting the Congressional tongue-lashing on his 39th birthday. Happy birthday, Jerry! Turning 40's going to look easy by comparison. More »
    11/06/07
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    By Tim Faulkner

    Comment by mandarin: Pygmies have more morals than Yahoo. Nice going Yang, why are you asking for forgiveness when you will no doubt... more » | Other threads

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