Gawker
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environmentalism
The Green Movement Goes Down the Crapper
When did the New York Times Op-Ed page decide to revert to the loopy environmentalism of the 1970s? The latest commercial disguised as a broadside features an author who wants to change the way we wee. More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by saythatscool: This article just gives me the shivers but to women, I suspect it means squat. 7 Responses | Other threads
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deathwatch
Why Tesla's Elon Musk Could Be the New Preston Tucker
Tesla Motors, the best hope of Silicon Valley's nascent clean-transportation industry, is headed over a financial cliff. The only question is how many customers the electric sportscar maker will take for a ride. More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by ludwigk: I actually saw a Tesla roadster the other day driving into my neighborhood, which baffled me. There was this bright orange... 3 Responses | Other threads
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nerdfight
Why Elon Musk could be the next Steve Jobs
When visionaries clash, whose vision do we believe? On newsstands this week, Newsweek's Dan Lyons savages Tesla Motors, the electric-car maker. Tesla was once the brightest hope of Silicon Valley's clean-transportation industry; now on its fourth CEO in less than two years, it's better known for manufacturing boardroom drama than actual vehicles. Lyons writes that Tesla's Roadster is a "classic Silicon Valley product — it's late and over budget, has gone through loads of redesigns, still has bugs and, at $109,000, costs more than originally planned. Company founder Martin Eberhard (left, at bottom) says that lead investor Elon Musk (left, at top), who recently installed himself as the company's fourth CEO, made costly changes to the car's design and is "a terrible CEO." Musk's retort: "Martin is the worst individual I've ever had the displeasure of working with." More » -
cleantech
Apple's new green scandal
After coming under attack by pro-environment groups, Apple has tried hard to burnish its green image. But its latest laptops could ruin its reputation among the carbon-conscious. Apple has touted the innovation of its new "unibody" laser-manufacturing process, which carves the MacBook's body out of a block of aluminum. "The process uses a huge amount of energy to machine each case and then to recycle the material removed," an expert on computer supply chains tells Valleywag. "It's a much less efficient and there's a huge amount of waste than any other process to make the housings." The charge could be electrifying, if proven true. More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by Figaro: "..there's a huge amount of waste than any other process to make the housings." BULLSHIT! Apple recycles pieces of the aluminum... 4 Responses | Other threads
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schemes
Is Elon Musk aiming to take over Tesla?
Tesla Motors, Silicon Valley's troubled electric carmaker, is still running on financial fumes, with $9 million or less in the bank. It's been widely misreported that the company has already raised $40 million. In fact, that's the amount it's hoping to raise, in the form of convertible debt, from current investors in a rights offering, which will take 30 days to complete. Musk made a fortune from PayPal, the online payments startup purchased by eBay, and other startups. He says he has enough money to take the entire round if other investors don't step up. And that may be exactly what he's hoping will happen. More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by wiseleo: I would argue that Tesla is in a far better position that other automakers: 1. Fossil fuel vehicles will be extinct... 1 Responses | Other threads
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eric schmidt
Google now getting into the energy business
Let's face it: Google's every attempt to venture outside its holy circle of search and ads has been a financial nonstarter. So is it thinking about getting into the energy business? Yes. Read between the lines in CEO Eric Schmidt's statements to the New York Times. "Our primary mission is one of information," he says. "As to whether we will be in these other businesses, we will see.” See? When a project is some years off, America's CTO out-and-out lies. Remember how he denied, for years, that Google was working on a Web browser, and then presto ta-da, Google Chrome emerged fully formed from the forehead of Sergey Brin? Right. So if Schmidt is merely ditherating about the idea that Google could play in the energy business, you might as well be getting utility bills in your Gmail tomorrow.
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By Owen ThomasComment by deluxe2000plus: This company really doesn't know what to do with all the AdSense money they earn. Data center boats, satellites, energy... 2 Responses | Other threads
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100-word version
Why Kleiner Perkins thinks green is the new black
The company that funded Netscape, Google and Genentech is now focusing on electric cars, solar power and biofuels. New York Times contributor Jon Gertner has been meeting with Kleiner partners since last year. His 8,000-word feature in Sunday's paper goes deep on details of a few KPCB investments such as Ausra. But it spends a lot of time framing the story for non-techies outside the Valley. Here's the Sand Hill Road edit: More »
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By Paul BoutinComment by sample032: Outside of the Bay Area, people don't care how green a product makes them look as much as they care... 2 Responses | Other threads
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apple
French newspaper says Macs cause cancer
The Liberation of France says an oft-noticed smell emitted by Apple's Mac Pro desktop computers is caused by a combination of toxins, including benzene, which is known to cause leukemia. The questions now have to be: What did Apple know and when did Apple know it? Posts in Apple support forums, full of Mac Pro owners complaining of the smell, indicate Apple was well-aware of how their computers smell. One owner writes, "They guy in the service center said that every Mac Pro he has set up has the smell at first, so it appears to be normal in his experience." There's no mention of benzene in the forum. Some particularly damning posts: More »
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Comment by assassinave: French People cause cancer. I could believe that the French would have low enough journalistic standards to just write random things... more » | Other threads
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meltdowns
Vinod Khosla explains Wall Street crisis
Confused by Wall Street? Join the club. Vinod Khosla, a venture capitalist who is one of Silicon Valley's most revered brains, doesn't get what's happening, either. "If I can't understand it, I suspect a lot of people can't," he told Beet.tv's Andy Plesser in this video interview. "In the name of economic efficiency by slicing and dicing risk, we're reducing transparency, which is not a healthy thing." I was with him that far. But then he concluded: "Venture capital will be a pretty good place when we return to reality and invest in things we understand and are real." That rules out most Web startup investments made in the past couple of years. Heck, Khosla believes in cost-effective ethanol.
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By Owen ThomasComment by HughHaedjinn: Gosh. Who'd have thought that it would be difficult to accurately price derivatives of a new class of inherently risky... more » | Other threads
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rumormonger
New Macbooks dump plastic for eco-friendly aluminum
AppleInsider's network of loose-lipped leakers claim they've seen the new MacBooks about to go into production. Gone are the plastic casings that nagged Greenpeace — and scratched way too easily. Like the new iPods and the MacBook Air shown here (I'm skeptical about this alleged spy shot of the new Macbooks), the new notebooks are reportedly slim and round-edged, with downsized adapter ports replacing the largest standard jacks on the side. I've already ordered our aluminum Xmas tree, honey. (Photo by AP/Jeff Chiu)
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By Paul BoutinComment by dorian: isn't that kind of like saying you shouldn't like salt because it contains dangerous sodium AND chlorine? 2 Responses | Other threads
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vinod khosla
Ethanol investor wants to kill the electric car
CAMBRIDGE, MASS. — At MIT's EmTech conference, venture capitalist Vinod Khosla made a shocking assertion: Electric cars are irrelevant. Unless some unlikely breakthrough in battery technology comes about, they will never take enough of the market to matter. This is a financially convenient argument for Khosla to make: He has invested heavily in biofuels startups. But he raises a point few in the privileged West think about: Will the rising middle classes of China and India buy a $25,000 Prius, or a $2,500 Tata Nano? More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by colonelpanic: Suck my Fisker, Vinod. Bio-diesel is a fool's errand. Khosla's problem is that he got sucked into the ethanol vortex... 1 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
Eric Schmidt and Jeff Immelt announce Google-GE partnership
Scheduled to take the stage at Google's latest Zeitgeist gathering are CEO Eric Schmidt and General Electric CEO Jeff Immelt. The plan is to announce a partnership which "is likely to focus on adding network intelligence to the electric grid and improving capacity," according to Portfolio. The idea is to improve electricity-infrastructure efficiency through more advanced networking technology, presumably resulting in better service and lower carbon-dioxide pollution by reducing demand through conservation and therefore burning less coal. Of course, for now it just means more lobbyists in the Capitol and possibly more money for research and development. What does Google want in all this, besides good environmental press? More »
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By Jackson WestComment by TMonster: "What does Google want in all this, besides good environmental press?" I don't think this is about their datacenters. "Network... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Tesla's $250 million manufacturing plant to park in San Jose
Tesla Motors plans to break ground on a 600,000-sq. ft. factory on an 89-acre plot of land in San Jose, according to company officials. The electric-car manufacturer is banking on $250 million in financing from Goldman Sachs and the Department of Energy to build the facility, on top of the $15 million or more in tax breaks California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger offered to keep the company in California. Tesla is currently only producing 10 of the company's signature roadster coupes a week in England and California, with a list price of $109,000. CEO Ze'ev Drori says new plant will be initially capable of producing around 300 a week of the Model S sedan planned for introduction in 2010. How many "green collar" jobs will the project create? More »
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By Jackson WestComment by irrational exuberance: Z'viv? Think you'll find that's Ze'ev... 1 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
San Francisco can't find greenbacks for Gavin Newsom's public utility palace
The San Francisco Public Utilities Commission had plans to build a monument to renewable energy in a project that Gavin Newsom pitched to congress as an example of cutting-edge green building practices. But the mayor's newly appointed SFPUC director Ed Harrington, who sagely noted that The City can't balance the books and the cost of the building might spur protests from ratepayers, has nixed the $190 million proposal. Too bad — would have looked really good on Newsom's CV when he applies for the governor's job in 2010. [Curbed SF]
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By Jackson WestComment by TMonster: Thank God. I'm so sick of politicians spending our money on their stupid vanity projects. more » | Other threads
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silicon valley users guide
A solar power primer for entrepreneurs
Can't face the slog of another social network startup? Go solar! There'll be plenty of spending on solar panels in the coming decade, especially if Barack Obama gets his $150 billion wish for an alternative energy program. Dude, that's NASA-level money, and it could be yours. Here's the first three things you need to know so you don't look dumb: More »
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By Paul BoutinComment by ElmerGanjelf: The article does a good job covering solar photovoltaic (pv), but the bigger opportunity is in large concentrating solar thermal.... 1 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
Green Texas datacenter CityNAP goes into red
When CityNAP, a San Antonio-based datacenter, opened last year, it bragged about its environmental credentials, such as buying its energy from a wind-power concern. "Sustainability and green business practices make good business sense!" thundered CityNAP president Frank Robles, shown here in the blue shirt, in a press release. Robles should have paid more attention to keeping CityNAP in the black: With assets of $100,000 and $460,000 in debt, CityNAP has filed for bankruptcy. CityNAP is contesting $230,000 in claims from its landlord. It's not easy being green.
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By Owen ThomasComment by bifrost: wtf are those guys doing in that picture? more » | Other threads
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politics
Tech industry lobbyists hope merger will get their calls returned
It's OK if you've never heard of the ITAA or AeA, two of several trade groups which lobby for Valley companies. That's one reason they're talking about merging. Unlike, say, the coal industry, tech has no single front group, nor an industrywide issue around which companies can rally. Heck, there isn't even a Wikipedia page for the expired R&D tax credit. If Silicon Valley expects to see any of President Obama's $150 billion in alternative energy spending, the ugly truth is tech firms will need to get in there and fight before ExxonMobil — the sponsor of Stanford's alternative energy program — grabs it all.
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By Paul BoutinComment by Paul Boutin: @GoogleFanBoy: I only feel bad that you aggravated your carpal tunnel by typing the entire phrase "journalistic integrity." more » | Other threads
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the sum of all human knowledge
Jimmy Wales's green site littered with lies
People who know Jimmy Wales well can't stop snickering about the launch of Wikia Green, his new anyone-can-edit environmental site. In his private life, Wales is about as green as Dick Cheney, from what they say. He's been known to toss styrofoam coffee cups out the window as he drives — something we imagine might give his enviroprecious celebrity pals paroxysms. Even green-cheerleading site Earth2Tech is on to Wales's insincerity: More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by WilliamMarkFelt: The unspoken premise of free culture is something like this - because we think things created like musics, books, articles,... more » | Other threads
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the sum of all human knowledge
Jimmy Wales to stop global warming with website
Eternal dilettante Jimmy Wales, the playboy founder of Wikipedia, has a new girlfriend-of-the-moment: Mother Nature. His for-profit offshoot wiki startup, Wikia, has launched Wikia Green, an edit-it-yourself guide to all things environmental. Like his past launched-and-abandoned efforts — anyone remember Campaigns Wikia, Wales's political supersite? — Wikia Green likely won't go far. More »
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By Owen ThomasComment by WagCurious: He's just putting Wikia in front of every buzz word he can think of. Watch next for Wiki Flapjacks and... 2 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
Google's plans to literally offshore data centers
In a recently filed patent application, Google details plans to build a "Water-based Datacenter," complete with an array of pontoons to generate electricity from the motion of the ocean. The abundant water could also be used to cool the servers, and power could be further augmented with wind energy. But the real gains aren't greentech, necessarily — in international waters, the company can more profitably invade you privacy free from evil governments and their tyrannical taxes and laws. [USPTO] -
crime
Cheap stolen solar panels, now on Craigslist?
A rash of solar panel thefts has hit the Bay Area and Sacramento according to a report from local news station KPIX. Recently hit was the Hearst Elementary School in Pleasanton. Best part of the story? The main suspect in the case, a Pittsburg, Calif. resident, is alleged to have used Craigslist to fence the goods. According to reporter Jeffrey Schaub, each panel can fetch from $800 to $1000, much more than stolen copper piping or the platinum from catalytic convertors in car mufflers, which are also hot items. Putting it all together — the East Bay, late-night theft and Craigslist — my money is on meth addicts.
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By Jackson WestComment by loslosbaby: Its true. The little meth monster is constantly grinding its teeth...they would steal a life-support machine, anything. ... more » | Other threads
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environment
Keep Burning Man green — stay home
If Burning Man were still held at Ocean Beach, it would be a lot greener. Eighty-seven percent of the 27,000 tons of greenhouse gases generated by this year's party on the playa come from participants driving and flying to and from the event, according to the Cooling Man project. Cooling Man wants Burners to spend ten dollars each to buy carbon offsets. As a former theme-camper, I know money is tight for attendees this week. So I found you a discount to $9.07: More »
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By Paul BoutinComment by sample032: So that's why they call it the "playa." more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Silicon Valley thieves sawing catalytic converters off cars
The antipollution device bolted onto your car's exhaust pipes contains platinum, an expensive metal. Some recycling shops will pay $200 for a used converter — whether it comes from a junked vehicle or was freshly sawed from beneath a Toyota Land Cruiser at the Stanford Shopping Center. I typed up the best parts of a not-online report by the San Francisco Daily Post: More »
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By Paul BoutinComment by Jake von Slatt: OK, universal converters like the one I put on my VW kit car are like $70 so this is all... 5 Responses | Other threads
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Nancy Floyd
Green VC's speech outperforms her investments
Nth Power founder Nancy Floyd, whose firm invests in clean-energy solutions, spoke at the Democratic convention last night. I tracked down her full speech. Nth Power's investments haven't exactly threatened Kleiner Perkins on ROI. But Floyd has a plan to fix that. Wanna guess? Don't miss the part where she panders to the DNC's Mac fans. More » -
i hate it here
The east coast's love affair with Gavin Newsom
Time magazine gives renewable energy credit to hunky God-mayor Gavin Newsom. None was due. The august journal hails our fair mayor for a nonexistent wind-energy installation: More »
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By Jackson WestComment by cokeslurpee: I've lived in SF for a few years and I have been extremely unimpressed with how the city is governed.... 10 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
Pelosi's "fossil fuels" gaffe has legs
"I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil fuels," House speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Meet the Press Sunday. She said it again, just to be sure. We know what she meant, but dumb little mistakes like this are the general public's equivalent of Valleywag's Google cafeteria reports. I waited a couple of days to see if Pelosi's quote would quietly fall off the radar. Silly me! A sampling of the backlash so far: More »
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By Paul BoutinComment by Robert Synnott: The statement, of course, would have been almost as silly without the 'fossil fuel' bit; Europe learned the hard way... 1 Responses | Other threads
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cleantech
IBM makes environment easy to bookmark and forget
"Energy-efficient computers powered by sunshine. This will be an instant hit," grouses chief bitterness officer Ted Dziuba in his latest opinion column for The Register. "There will be greenhouse gas output dashboards with neat little Ajax widgets." Mystery contributor theodp points out that IBM already sells it. -
cleantech
Makani Power whips up another $5 million windfall from Google
Makani Power, the company founded in part by Larry Page and Sergey Brin's kitesurfing buddy Don Montague, has scored another $5 million in investment from Google as part of a second round that could net as much as $20 million. That's on top of the $10 million already invested in the startup's plan to create electricity from high-altitude air currents. This money, like the first round, presumably comes from Google.org's project to tap into renewable energy that's cheaper than coal. I may have to revise my opinion of Google.org as just another corporate venture fund and green PR ploy. More »
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By Jackson WestComment by Oren-T: "Windfall : an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage" Please spare us the puns. An investment is neither unexpected, sudden... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Google, Makani, and the kite surfing-industrial complex at Moffett Field
How did wind energy startup Makani Power garner $10 million in investment from Google and space at the NASA-run Ames research center on Moffett Field? Through at least one convenient marriage and a shared passion for kite surfing, a tipster points out: More »
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By Jackson WestComment by TMonster: Provide some evidence, please, for your implication that Google is somehow palm-greasing their way at NASA to get their buddies... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
An energy debate brought to you by BP
We don't need any energy technology breakthrough to solve the climate-change problem. At least, that's the Tthesis posited by The Economist in a debate sponsored by everyone's favorite multinational oil company,British PetroleumBeyond Petroleum. The ayes are having it so far. Joseph Romm from the Center for American Progress takes the pro, Peter Meisen of the Global Energy Network Institute takes the con, and Earth2Tech's Katie Fehrenbacher argues the corollary for conservation through increased efficiency.
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By Jackson WestComment by isights: They're right, we don't need an energy technology breakthrough. We just need do get on with what we have and... more » | Other threads
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commenter of the day
Cynical Tech Media Bitch
With a subject as touchy as nuclear power plants, arguments for or against can quickly degrade into fear, uncertainty, and doubt. But today's featured commenter, Cynical Tech Media Bitch, offered up rebuttals to create a discussion worth the read: More »
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Comment by Spy from the Land of Rainpeople: @sample032: Man, your sense of humour is failing you. Nobody was talking about anything going critical or pear-shaped. Both the input... more » | Other threads
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Tim the IT Guy
Nuclear power? You're soaking in it
San Francisco alone consumes 850 continuous megawatts of electricity during the day. How much is that? The two supersized solar arrays planned for 2013 won't be enough to run SF — they'll produce 800 megawatts total. Gavin Newsom's pet project, the tidal power generator, will only piddle out 55 megawatts — one-fifteenth of the city's needs. Meanwhile, the Golden State's two operating nuclear sites each crank out more than 2,000 megawatts — day or night, high tide or low. What really drives the greenies crazy? They're safe. More »
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Comment by NuclearPro-Am: Sorry to be so late to the game, but you asked for a Bush/Clinton/Bush spokesperson, and unfortunately you got one.... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Google wants to drill Mother Earth and pump her with fluids
Google, everyone's favorite search-engine monopoly, has spent $10,739,521 on three geothermal power projects, including investments in AltaRock Energy, Potter Drilling and a grant for the geothermal labs at Southern Methodist University. The idea? Dig a hole two to six miles deep, pump it full of water and then use the steam produced by the heat to power a turbine (and, presumably, capture the steam in order to recycle the water). It adds geothermal power to wind and solar generation projects funded through Google.org's project to generate renewable energy that's cheaper per kilowatt-hour than power generated through burning coal. All in an effort to make sure that consumer markets can continue apace, because heaven help us if we had to actually conserve energy. (Photo by World Island Info) -
valley spawn
John Doerr's daughter is greener than thou
Kleiner Perkins partner John Doerr, ever the indulgent father, has stopped showering tears on his 17-year-old daughter Mary, and switched to cash instead. Mary Doerr's nonprofit, Inconvienient Youth, is a Ning-based social network that's supposed to make Al Gore's global warming presentation more "teen-friendly," according to VentureBeat. More »
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Comment by OMG! ThePrincessIsInAnotherCastle!: Not everyone has a clothesline you selfish bit.... I held up... honest, I did. more » | Other threads
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valley spawn
Khosla family's vegetable drama hits Facebook
Venture capitalist Vinod Khosla's 15-year old son Neal, a student at ritzy San Francisco prep school Lick-Wilmerding, is refusing to eat any vegetables. "The only vegetable he has had this week is a single, lone piece of onion that snuck into his fajitas, despite spending the majority of dinner carefully picking all the vegetables out of his food," according to his sister Nina, who IM'd Valleywag this morning in desperation. The family has gotten Neal to agree to eat vegetables, but only if a Facebook group they've set up garners 1,000 users. More » -
cleantech
Supersize solar farms coming to California
What's cooler than a solar energy plant 10 times larger than any ever built? Two of 'em! Two plants to be built in San Luis Obispo County will deliver a planned total of 800 megawatts to PG&E. That's four times the output of San Francisco's Hunters Point plant, or enough to run 800 big Wal-Marts. The bad news: They won't be fully online until 2013. (Photo of Israeli solar farm by Getty Images/Uriel Sinai)
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By Paul BoutinComment by wutzu: There are already two power plants in San Luis Obispo County, Diablo Canyon (Nuclear, 2,200MW total) and Morro Bay (Natural... more » | Other threads
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greenwashing
T. Boone Pickens proves where there's a drill, there's a way
Greenwashing — the practice of gussying up old-fashioned capitalism as newfangled Earth-saving — is an art form. I used to think local greenwashers Pacific Gas & Electric and spam-prone solar shill Steve Westly were the masters. But they look like rank amateurs compared to Oklahoma native T. Boone Pickens. The man is a case study in how to effectively cloak your greed in green. As a result, he's won plaudits, taxpayer money, and eminent domain over private property. The latest example? More »
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By Jackson WestComment by noodleman: We wouldn't be so nearly foreign oil-dependent if US oil companies weren't selling their US-drilled oil to overseas customers. Btw,... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Kevin Rose's idea of the week, the iPower from Apple
Kevin Rose, the Casanovative founder of Digg, is concerned about the effect that all his whizbang gadgets are having on precious Gaia. He proposes that the heavenly father of the Jesusphone, the almighty Steve Jobs, develop an "iPower" system to monitor a home's electrical system. When your iPhone's GPS detects that you've left the house, the AirPort base station would trigger relay switches in power outlets around the house to shut off, saving precious joules from being wasted — something that a number of other companies are already developing, Rose readily admits. That's not a problem: Like all of Rose's ideas, this one involves someone else doing all the work. My only concern? Considering all the fecund females who've been associated with Rose over the years, it's only a matter of time before this dream becomes a reality — and then an awful nightmare. Because what happens when Robot Steve Jobs is given complete control over your home? More »
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By Jackson WestComment by Shadowlayer: I was asking mrfomoco in my last post. more » | Other threads
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cleantech
First Wind's $450 million IPO a liquidity gusher?
Appropriately named First Wind, a wind-generation startup based in Newton, MA with $230 million invested from the likes of JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, DE Shaw and Madison Dearborn Partners which operates 92 kilowatts of generation capacity, has filed paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission to file an initial public offering. Small problem, however — it's only generated $37 million in revenue against $138 million in losses, and its mainland plants are competing with electricity generated from relatively inexpensive coal and hydro sources. Add the fact that the motivation for the $450 million IPO is, like the latest funding round, meant to cover debts and you have yourself a dicey proposition, especially in the short term. Who will see the green? More »
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By Jackson WestComment by Passerby: Sorry sample32 your right got my math mixed up, pre-lunch food dyslexia! Expenses as a percentage of revenue looks bad year... more » | Other threads
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cleantech
Is Richard Branson a green hypocrite — or just a bad businessman?
Ireland's Sunday Business Post savages Virgin chief Richard Branson for the $3 billion pledge he made two years ago to invest all the profits from his air and rail-transport businesses into cleantech. The Post notes that Branson's green technology of choice, biofuels, has fallen out of favor, as scientists and politicians debate whether we should be fueling our tanks or feeding people with the source materials for vegetable-derived energy. The Post, in other words, is accusing an entrepreneur of being an entrepreneur. Hardly stinging. If one really wanted to bring Branson down, one might have pointed out how the normally savvy media spinner just highlighted the food-vs.-energy debate when, for a photo op at a test flight powered by coconut and palm oil, he drank some of the fuel out of a coconut. (Photo by Ben Stansall/AFP/Getty Images)
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By Owen ThomasComment by Vulture: @raincoaster: I would siphon gas tanks with you any time. more » | Other threads
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